From Crystals to Christ: Coming out of the New Age w/ Guest Elle Angel

Show Transcript

Jay Lee [00:00:00]:

Hey, this is Pastor Jay, and you're listening to the Daily Sabbath podcast. All right, welcome to the Daily Sabbath podcast. I'm your host, Pastor Jay. And today we're going to talk about something that we've never talked about on the daily Sabbath podcast. And today, what we're talking about is what some people would call the new age. And, you know, maybe you haven't run into too many people who would overtly describe themselves as being new age, but I think the beliefs and the practices are actually quite prevalent in our culture. It's in the atmosphere of social media and a lot of the books on the bookshelves. And so I think it's something that I want to personally understand better, and I think it's something that you should understand better, too.

Jay Lee [00:00:51]:

My guest today is Elle Angel Talada. She is a trauma informed life coach for christian women. And she's also the author of a book, Kinsugi Heart, how to Recover from past toxic relationships and thrive in new relationships as a christian empath. And also, the reason why she's the guest today is because formerly she was a follower of the new age. And so, Al, thank you so much for being a guest on the daily Sabbath today.

Elle Angel [00:01:16]:

Thanks for having me.

Jay Lee [00:01:18]:

So before we jump into talking about new age, I first wanted to just kind of hear a little bit more about your book, Kinsugi Heart. Would you just mind telling us a little bit about what it's about, where the book comes from?

Elle Angel [00:01:30]:

So Kinsugi heart is for the highly sensitive Christian who has been through many toxic relationships, tends to get in toxic relationship after toxic relationship, and is having a really difficult time connecting to God, finding equilibrium, finding a healthy balance in their relationships, and moving forward. I found that after working with these individuals for the last eleven years, that they are often so lost and can often go into the new age because they are seeking that connection and that closeness with God, that they kind of stumble into the new age movement.

Jay Lee [00:02:16]:

I see.

Elle Angel [00:02:16]:

So this book both addresses that and addresses the pains that they are holding on to and how to recover and bring God into the healing process.

Jay Lee [00:02:29]:

Okay, so it sounds like the book then, and your work are very much connected to sort of your past experience with being in the new age.

Elle Angel [00:02:38]:

Yes. I didn't want to leave that behind. I learned a lot while I was in the new age movement, and I wanted to bring my experience into my coaching and my teaching so I could help others who have stumbled into that movement as well.

Jay Lee [00:02:55]:

Well, I think that's a perfect segue then, into this conversation, which honestly, I have a lot of questions about, and so I'm thankful for you that you can be here to share some of your experiences. But I think just the term new age is kind of ambiguous for a lot of people that maybe we've heard it, but we don't really know what it means. And so would you mind just kind of just giving us a basic definition of what is the new age? Are there some core beliefs? What is it exactly?

Elle Angel [00:03:24]:

So new age to me is a collection of many practices and many belief systems. And they tend to come from different spiritual viewpoints, different religions, and it's kind of all lumped into one movement. So you might find some christian terms, some buddhist terms, they borrow. They borrow from different religions and kind of lump it all into one. And yes, there are definitely beliefs within there. Like one of the biggest ones that many people talk about, that many are familiar with is the law of attraction. So that's the idea that like attracts like unto itself. And so they believe that if you are positive, then you're only going to bring positivity into your life.

Elle Angel [00:04:14]:

If you think these certain thoughts and if you do these certain things that are in alignment with that, then you're only going to get positive results in your life. You're going to manifest them into your life. And so you are the God of your reality, you and the universe. So God is stripped of his name. You and the universe are one, and you're heightened. You're on this other level right when you go into the new age. So it gives you a very inflated sense of self importance that a lot of people are missing. They want to feel special, they want to feel elevated because the world is, can be a dark place.

Elle Angel [00:04:57]:

And so they find that sense of importance in new age. There's also the belief that basically all roads lead to heaven. God, sorry, the universe is accepting of all ways and you're loved no matter what it is that you do like, it's all accepted. It's all lumped into one. And that the universe or God doesn't have hates, he doesn't have a gender, he doesn't have a personality, really. It's more of like a thing. And so that means that they can do as that wilt. Right.

Elle Angel [00:05:30]:

And so that leaves a lot of room for darkness to come in and be accepted that it's just okay. And the universe doesn't mind either way. And I'm going to go to heaven anyways.

Jay Lee [00:05:41]:

So, I mean, a lot of what you just described, I feel like, is a lot of kind of some of what I see on social media a lot. So a lot of those kinds of concepts and terms, the law of attraction, the universe. Just out of curiosity. So I think I was first introduced to the concept of the law of attraction from the book the Secret, which was, I don't know if it's how popular it is now, but it was very popular, kind of maybe when I was in college. Is the secret also kind of really a thing still, or is it more just the law of attraction, not necessarily the secret?

Elle Angel [00:06:17]:

Well, that has developed into different books, and there's many different teachers that appeared in that movie. Right. And so all those different teachers have continued and brought that law of attraction into their work. So it's spread. So I think it's much bigger than just the book now. I see everywhere. It's in entertainment. It's everywhere and social, like you said, interesting.

Jay Lee [00:06:41]:

And then the other thing that you said, I think that's really interesting, is that in some sense, new age kind of brings together a lot of different concepts from a lot of different religions. So would you say, kind of, in your experience, what you've seen, is it that there's elements from many different religions, or does it feel like they're sort of like, here's the christian flavor of new age, but here's sort of the buddhist flavor of new age, and people sort of maybe fit into almost like, different flavors of new age? Or is it more just. No, there's just kind of these concepts, but it's completely its own thing.

Elle Angel [00:07:15]:

No, I would say that there are a lot of people that are in new age that believe in karma. Right. That that's just borrowed. There's a lot of people in New age that believe in what's called Christ consciousness. So that the belief is that Jesus came here to teach us how to attain Christ consciousness, so this place of being, and that anybody could achieve that while they're here, similar to enlightenment, and then they could ascend. So that's another really big piece of it, is this ascension process. Right. So there's a lot within new age that makes people want to just transcend this existence.

Elle Angel [00:07:58]:

And you'll find that in their language a lot of times. So when they describe things, their description often isn't linear. There's a lot of. How would I describe it? It's not so clear cut difficult to understand. It's like a lingo. Like, you have to be able to speak that language to understand what it is that they're saying, because they have so many different terms, they have their own language. It's interesting. So basically, Christ consciousness, that's one of the things that they borrowed from Christianity, and they changed it, they manipulated it.

Elle Angel [00:08:30]:

So that's another thing that they will work to become, because they believe that Jesus is an ascended master, not that his death on the cross really, that goes unsaid. That doesn't play any importance. It's what he taught and that we could meditate our way into Christ consciousness. Those are just a couple of things.

Jay Lee [00:08:51]:

Oh, interesting. Yeah. So it's almost like he's similar to kind of Hinduism and Budhism and reaching enlightenment. It's just Jesus is an enlightened master or teacher, like you were saying. Interesting.

Elle Angel [00:09:02]:

Basically, yes.

Jay Lee [00:09:04]:

Now, here's something, and I don't know how big of a deal this is in new age. I guess I'm not even 100% sure this is a part of new age. I think it is. So you can correct me if I'm wrong, but what is the deal with crystals? Because I feel like I see stuff about crystals all over the place. I have no clue what's going on with that. I think it's kind of new age, but honestly, I don't know. Could you tell me a little bit more about crystals?

Elle Angel [00:09:29]:

Yeah. So crystals are such a hot topic, right? Like, for one, they're beautiful. They're beautiful to look at. But where new age comes in is that they use crystals for specific things. So they assign meanings to each of the crystals. So this one brings about healing, this one brings about protection. This one is for finances, financial abundance. And so in order to bring about that result, they will bring crystals into certain areas of their homes or certain areas of their life to attain that.

Elle Angel [00:10:00]:

They can also use crystals for healing, to do crystal healing, to do different rituals as well. There's many uses for them. They're also used for things like scrying. So that's a crystal ball. And you're gazing into the crystal ball so that you can see other people, you can see future events, you can see different things.

Jay Lee [00:10:25]:

Wow.

Elle Angel [00:10:26]:

Different types of crystals are used for different purposes, but also the cut of the crystal has its own use as well. So a crystal ball has that use of scrying. A crystal wand can be used in healing ceremonies. There are points to direct it. There's a lot of details that are.

Jay Lee [00:10:47]:

In it, for sure. It sounds like it gets pretty deep.

Elle Angel [00:10:50]:

Okay.

Jay Lee [00:10:50]:

So it sounds like it's almost like an amulet or even kind of an idol. The way that some religions use idols, maybe in other religions, they associate those idols with particular gods, but similar kinds of thing. There's one for finance and one for health and things like that. Wow, that's very interesting.

Elle Angel [00:11:10]:

So the issues with crystals is not the crystal in and of itself, but that crystals can be used as gateways, they can be used as portals. So in the occult, you can use a crystal as a way to access somebody else. So when they are doing their rituals to affect another individual on a negative level or for a spell or these types of things, crystals can be used as a doorway into that person's life, both for somebody doing occult work, but also for demons or harmful spirits to come through as well. So we know that there are crystals in scripture, and crystals are God's creation. Right. So this is where a lot of people butt heads. Crystals are God's creation. Yes.

Elle Angel [00:11:57]:

You can pray over them and you can just use them to. You can use them in your jewelry, you use them for whatever it is that you want. But the issue is that they can be used for harm when they get into the wrong hands or when somebody else is trying to get into your life. So that's where there's a little bit of conflict there between people who just want to keep crystals, to keep them and don't see anything wrong with them, and then other people who use them for different purposes.

Jay Lee [00:12:28]:

Interesting. So basically, some people would view crystals as, it's just a crystal, just like a rock. There's nothing necessarily significant about the crystal itself. Whereas I think what you're saying is other people feel like that there are actually spiritual things associated with these crystals, and it's not something that we should just be like, hey, I'm just going to put this up on my shelf because I think it looks pretty like it's deeper than that. And there's more significance to these elements.

Elle Angel [00:12:59]:

100%.

Jay Lee [00:13:00]:

And then a word that you use, there is something else that I've also always had a lot of curiosity about the occult, which is also another term that I feel like is kind of ambiguous. And I don't really know exactly how to define the occult, but just some of the things that you're describing about how people use crystals and spells and having access and visibility into other people's lives. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like what I would typically have thought of as something like witchcraft. Occult. So for you, would you say new age and occult and maybe witchcraft? Are these pretty much kind of one and the same things, or they just have a lot of overlap? Yeah. What's the relationship between these things?

Elle Angel [00:13:45]:

So new age is a collection more of different beliefs and rituals and practices from different spiritual backgrounds or religions, and occult is one of them. So there are harmless things within new age. There are some things that are truths that you can bring in, but the enemy will have some bit of truth in there. And then it's twisted, right, just so that you can't accept the whole thing as it is. So the occult practices are absolutely mixed, right into new age. Mediumship is just one of them. So the tarot cards, divination practices, these are just a couple of things that they use. Spells can be found in that as well.

Elle Angel [00:14:32]:

It kind of depends on how deep you go. When I was in the new age, that wasn't something that ever interested me. I kind of always stayed away from that side of things. I didn't do spells, but you definitely can and bring in certain herbs and mixes to bring about specific results. So that would be occulta as well.

Jay Lee [00:14:53]:

Wow. The more and more you tell me, it just kind of feels like the more deeper and deeper it gets. So I'm curious then, for you, how did you find yourself in the new age? What led you into it? How deep into it were you?

Elle Angel [00:15:16]:

So the secret also was the doorway for me and my husband as well, actually, into the new age. And why it was so appealing was because it gave me a sense of self importance when I did not feel important at all. I was going through a really difficult time in my life, and I felt like what the secret presented to me made me feel like life was magical and that I actually had power to shape my own reality. And that made me feel like I could do something. It gave me control over certain things in my life, even if it was a false sense of control. So that was how I came into it. And then from there, I had a really deep need to help people. And so I became certified in multiple healing modalities, like Reiki, angel cards.

Elle Angel [00:16:16]:

I learned to read angel cards and do different types of healing techniques, use crystals, these types of things, to be able to work with my clients, akashic record reading as well. So I had multiple certifications to help that person on a soul level, mind level, energetic level, to feel better. So those were the different areas that I went into when it came to mediumship. That was something that came through. Sometimes. That was something that I dabbled in. I dabbled in tarot cards as well. I had experiences with the darker side of things.

Elle Angel [00:16:57]:

Unwillingly. That wasn't a place that I wanted to go to. But the thing is that when you are a Christian, you have legal right to access the spiritual realm. We're taught how to do that in know. We're taught how to pray. We're taught how to fight back spiritually. We have Jesus in the desert as an example, right, in having scripture and to stand strong in his word and God's promises. But when you are in new age and you don't have a firm foundation of scripture, you don't have a very deep relationship with God, or you have a relationship with something that you're not sure is God.

Elle Angel [00:17:33]:

It's a dangerous place to be in. It's a very dangerous place to be in because there are practices like having spirit guides and calling certain guides in, calling certain gods and goddesses in. And the reality is that you assume that they are good and that they're going to tell the truth. But as a Christian, you know that they lie. You know that the enemy lies, right? And he kills, he destroys these types of things. But when you're in new age and you don't have authority, you don't have the spiritual protection, and you're just navigating this spiritual realm. Those things exist, demons exist, spirits exist, the enemy exists, and they will lie to get you to do whatever it is that they want you to do. And you are unknowingly opening up the door into your house, into your life, into your family, and allowing for these energies to come and be there.

Elle Angel [00:18:29]:

And you're entertaining them. So sometimes they have different altars. And by altar, I mean similar to an altar that you would find in church. And they'll have crystals. They have pictures of the different angels or the different guides that they are calling on, and they will offer them things. And so as a Christian, when you have that firm foundation in scripture, you're like, no, don't do those things, are not good things to do. But when you're in new age, you're like, oh, I'm making them happy. I want their guidance.

Elle Angel [00:19:01]:

They're going to bring about this specific result in my life, and I trust that they're telling the truth, and they literally can totally wreak havoc in your life.

Jay Lee [00:19:11]:

Wow.

Elle Angel [00:19:11]:

So it's a dangerous place to be in.

Jay Lee [00:19:13]:

Yeah. First of all, everything that you just said, I'm just kind of like sitting here, like, listening and just my mind is sort of racing at that. So it sounds like for you, the appeal of it was because it felt like it gave you a sense of control and power when you felt like you didn't have any. And that was a very desirable thought, that you had the ability to sort of shape destiny and shape your life. And it also sounds like you're saying that for a lot of people that the deeper and deeper they get involved, there is this aspect of channeling or connecting with these entities in the universe. And really who they're connecting with is demons. But people in the new age, they don't realize that. They think they're connecting to some sort of benevolent spirit or what was it, a guiding spirit or spirit guide? Spirit guide.

Jay Lee [00:20:09]:

Yeah, a spirit guide. So they think they might be engaging with their spirit guide or a spirit guide, but really, the reality is they're engaging with demons. And, I mean, one of the things that I thought was just really interesting as you were sharing that is kind of like you said, that if you are a Christian, if you read the Bible, it's so similar to what demons have been doing forever and the deceptions that they've been doing forever in terms of getting people to follow them, promising health and wealth or power, and if you just make offerings and things like that. So, yeah, I guess for a Christian, it's so easy to see it's a very thinly veiled deception where it's like, man, they've been playing the same playbook forever, and people are continuing to fall into it. So kind of going back to sort of your experience and some of the practices that you were into, like you mentioned Reiki and tarot cards and things like that. So it sounds like then your experiences were. Because I think the question that I always have is when I do see people who are involved in things like that, and it sounds like you were using it to actually help people. So maybe giving people readings or things like that.

Jay Lee [00:21:18]:

I think the thing that I always wonder is, is it just a bunch of sort of, like, self deception where I think that I'm tapped into some sort of power and giving people some knowledge, but really I'm just kind of making stuff up, or is it like, no, these people are really tapped into some sort of a power. They just don't realize that it's not a benevolent power. So from based on what you've said, it kind of sounds like it's the latter, where you weren't just making stuff up, but you were tapped into something.

Elle Angel [00:21:48]:

Yes. So I wrote a whole book on channeling. I had a course and book on how to awaken your psychic ability. And that was pretty much what I base my business on, is I wanted to help people access God by accessing this ability within themselves, to connect with him and to read for others. Right.

Jay Lee [00:22:12]:

Yeah.

Elle Angel [00:22:13]:

So the intention, I believe, was good, but the method wasn't clean. There are kind of clean ways of accessing spirit, and there are dirty ways of accessing spirit. And what I mean by that is that it's got to be through Christ. It has to have a certain way for us to connect to God, right? It has to be through Jesus. Right. We're told that it has to be through Jesus. And when you try to do it in another way, it's not as clean. And so you can get a lot of interference.

Elle Angel [00:22:41]:

So after having worked with many people on that connectivity, I can safely say that it's unsafe to do so because you are absolutely accessing other realms. God does send his angels. So I don't want to say that every time somebody heard something from somebody, from something that was disembodied, that it was negative, because I don't believe that's the case all the time. God does send his angels, for sure. But again, it's not a clean way of doing so. And so, just like, if you don't have a clear connection, you can get a lot of interference. Do you remember on the old phones, like, the old cordless phones? I remember being on the phone with my friend, and then I could just pick up my neighbor's conversation, and we're just sitting on the phone listening to their conversation for a minute until it cleared up, and then we could hear each other again. And so it's the same thing when you're connecting to something else.

Elle Angel [00:23:33]:

Like, you might be wanting to connect with God, but because you don't have any discernment, you don't know how to test the spirits. The way that you're accessing it is unclean. You can have all sorts of interference and hijackings, and you wouldn't know the difference.

Jay Lee [00:23:47]:

You're saying there's more there than just self deception. What lured you in from the start was sort of what you said was maybe a false sense of control, but that doesn't mean there isn't real power within new age. And when you access certain things that you may very well be tapped into something real. It's just probably not of the Lord and not something that is good for you. Not something that God intends for you.

Elle Angel [00:24:15]:

Exactly. I like that you said that right there, that it's not good for you. Right. So even though it's attractive and even though you can have access to those things, God tells us not to do them because it's not good for us. He gives us his rules because he loves us and he wants what's best for us. So it's not because it doesn't exist. It's not because you can't achieve things that way. But that's not the right way, the healthy way, the good way of doing things.

Elle Angel [00:24:44]:

I've watched people that are in new age who use it for negative reasons, for harmful reasons, put other people out of business. I've seen really awful things happen when others get into this realm. I've seen really awful things happen as a result of really awful spiritual practices, like downright luciferian spiritual practices. So there is a power in that ultimately, never as big as the most high God. It's never that big. But it's this feeling that maybe I could do that, right? It's just the same thing. Like, maybe I could be better, maybe I don't need God. Maybe I could go my own way.

Elle Angel [00:25:24]:

I can do as I want to do. So it's a sexy, it's a little alluring kind of idea that I don't need scripture, I don't need to do all of these rules because I can attain power and money and influence this way if I use these techniques. But like you said, it's not what's good for us and what's right for us.

Jay Lee [00:25:44]:

Yeah. I mean, in that way it sounds like, again, same old playbook, right? The tactics never change. I mean, that was ultimately what led us to fall in the garden, right? Like, God's just trying to prevent you from being like him, right? You could have the same power, right. If you just go a different way. Yes, different time, but the tactics are always the same. And also, I think it's important to acknowledge that there is some power there that people can access, because I imagine, I mean, obviously, I've never been involved in it, but I imagine that that's also part of what's so deceptive about it is because you are really experiencing things and you really are maybe hearing things or seeing things or exercising maybe some sort of power or whatever. And so I think if you're experiencing something, I could imagine why that makes it so much more appealing and so much more persuasive. Like, for you, when you were kind of tapped into these things, was there anything that you look back on, you're like, yeah, this is one of the reasons why it was so persuasive to me because I was seeing this or I was experiencing this, or it helped me with whatever.

Jay Lee [00:26:55]:

You know what I mean?

Elle Angel [00:26:56]:

One of the big pieces of it was the law of attraction and was focusing on positivity. I had so many years of unhealed trauma. And so it was quite the idea to believe that if I only focused on the positive and I didn't see what I didn't want to see anyways, that I would only bring good in my life and that I would be happy and I would be healthy and I would get the things that I wanted. So it's a shortcut. It's a way to transcend reality. And, man, there are some teachers out there, there are some new age teachers out there that have their students believing that if they focus on their desired result, that is the reality. And I've watched this. They're living in such a belief of this falsehood.

Elle Angel [00:27:46]:

They're living in a false reality and forcing themselves to believe it to the point that their lives are suffering because they're not doing what they need to be doing. They're not working. They're letting themselves go. They're letting their kids go, and all they're doing is obsessing over a false reality with the hopes of it becoming their reality. So if you don't have a reality that you like, then you go into new age and you're like, oh, okay, well, if I can just believe this lie, then I don't have to face all my stuff. I don't have to do the real healing work, or I'll just focus on my chakras. I'll do some crystal healing. I'll do a little bit of Reiki and a sound bath, and, like, boom, I feel good for a couple of hours, and then that'll keep me going.

Elle Angel [00:28:36]:

So that was what did it for me, because there was so much from my past that I did not want to face. I just wanted to be with God. I wanted to have a sense of connection with him. And I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic elementary school and catholic high school, and I did not have that connection with Jesus. In my school, it was never encouraged for us to read the Bible. I learned, like, a handful of Bible stories. So I knew God existed. I knew that in my bones.

Elle Angel [00:29:09]:

But from a catholic perspective, it didn't make sense to me. I just didn't connect. It didn't give me that sense of connection and that intimacy that I found in new age, I found an intimacy there, like some celebrities talk about, literally, like, being intimate that way with spirits on the other side. So, I mean, you could take that as far as you want to go. And I really sought a deep intimacy with God and didn't want to face my past. So I found that in new age, I thought that that was better. And when I first met christian friends and I told them that I heard from God, I thought that they were going to think that I was crazy, because the Catholics that I knew at the time were like, looked at me like I had two heads when I said things like that or if I talked about spiritual gifts. Right? I didn't know that those things were written about in the Bible because I hadn't read it yet.

Elle Angel [00:30:03]:

But when they told me that was normal, I started to feel like maybe I can find a home in Christianity and feel more comfortable in it and that maybe it's going to be okay for me to face reality as long as I have Jesus here. Right? So it was a transition, a big one, but I'm so glad I did.

Jay Lee [00:30:24]:

And that's super helpful and super insightful for you to share with us. Just that it seems like the missing component in what you had previously with your experience with Catholicism, what you found in new age, and ultimately what kind of maybe helped you see that there was a future within the christian faith was the intimacy piece and the relationship piece, that having an actual true intimacy and connection with the divine is what you needed and what you were looking for. So how many years were you involved with new age? And then how did you sort of find your way out of it?

Elle Angel [00:31:07]:

I was involved with new age for about eight years. I mean, we know that when we truly seek him, then he'll reveal himself to us, right? He doesn't let our calls go unanswered. He wants to build a relationship with us. And so I really, really wanted that. I wanted that. And like I said, I felt that closeness with him, but there was just a lot of interference. I always felt like there was a lot of interference. So one day, I was putting my secondborn down for a nap, and I had this vision of Jesus.

Elle Angel [00:31:43]:

And he came to me and he told me that you have to buy a house. You have to get out of this house. And that he told me some things that were going to happen after that happened. I was like, I didn't know what to say. I was speechless. Right. I wasn't unfamiliar with visions, because I would have visions and I would have these things, but to be visited by Jesus was a very, very different story. So I went downstairs, and I remember I told my husband, I'm like, so Jesus came to me, right? So he's used to me saying that I had visions, but this was different.

Elle Angel [00:32:20]:

This was different. And we were not in a place that we could buy a house. It was just so outlandish. But it changed me, and I could still feel it as I recount that day. So after that, I started having dreams and visions, and I would tell a cousin of ours who is a Christian, and he would say that, this lines up with scripture, right? This lines up with scripture, and this lines up with scripture. You got to start reading the Bible. You got to read it. God is showing you things.

Elle Angel [00:32:51]:

So he didn't call me crazy. He legitimized the visions that I was getting, but told me that, you've got to read scripture, and this is how to connect. So I started reading the Bible and made it a goal of mine to read the whole Bible. And so I started reading a few pages of it a day, and it started to change me. And then something told me that I needed to be baptized. But as a Catholic, I'd never heard of an adult baptism. And then I saw somebody on Instagram who had this adult baptism. I was like, this is what I want.

Elle Angel [00:33:25]:

This is what I need. I need this again. My husband was like, I don't know about this. Right? He's still in new age. Our whole business is around new age.

Jay Lee [00:33:34]:

It was like, yeah, this is no small thing.

Elle Angel [00:33:37]:

No, it's not. I'm sure to the outside, it looked like I was crazy because there were all of these things, all of these practices and all these belief, and it was like they were just being clipped off of me. Things I didn't want to do anymore, I didn't want to say anymore. And I was being guided in this different direction. So I got baptized in the lake by my house. And then God tells me I'm to change my name. I've never met anybody who's changed their name before, like, apart from a last name once you get married. But I spoke to this friend who baptized me.

Elle Angel [00:34:11]:

I said, God's told me I need to change my name. This is what I'm supposed to change my name to. And she said, yeah, that happens in the Bible.

Jay Lee [00:34:18]:

She's like, yeah, that's what I was just thinking.

Elle Angel [00:34:21]:

Exactly. So, with my baptism, right at the time that I was baptized, this new name came through, right? So I had my name legally changed. And again, on the outside, I'm sure I look like I was nuts, but this is what God was telling me. So I just trusted. I just trusted, and I continued. So as we kept going, next thing was like, man, I got to change the business. Now. I know that this is what's paying for our house.

Elle Angel [00:34:47]:

This is what's paying for our bills, but God says no. And so it was another huge change. So we had amassed this list of thousands of people on there, and then I don't want to sell the products that I was selling anymore. So they were some really big changes, all the while still learning, all the while reading scripture every day and staying close to him. And then things started to shift with my husband as well, and my husband became a Christian as well. So it has just been this really massive transformation over the last few years. And I actually feel really fortunate because I had such a huge list of new agers that they got to witness my transformation. And so many, like, we had a big portion of them drop off when I started talking about Jesus for sure, but we had an equal number of people hop onto the list.

Elle Angel [00:35:43]:

So it actually, funnily enough, stayed the same, about the same. But I felt so happy to share that journey with them so that they could see what was happening in me and I could teach as I was going through it, they got to witness me in that and helped other people find Jesus as well. So I'm hoping that this message reaches people who are either dabbling in new age or they know somebody who is and that they could hear this story and understand that if it is intimacy that they're looking for, maybe they have that sense of brokenness. They want to feel empowered. They want to feel important. They want to feel love that they can get that. They can get that. It's in scripture.

Elle Angel [00:36:28]:

They can get that through Jesus. Even if they didn't have that in the church that they went to, even if they didn't have that at the school that they went to or in the family that they went to. They can get that with Jesus, that they don't need to go into the new age to feel that.

Jay Lee [00:36:41]:

I mean, that's profound right there. I mean, there's nothing wrong with the longing to want to be engaged intimately with the divine. It's just kind of borrowing the word that you've been using throughout the interview. You want to be drinking from a clean source of water, right? You want the living water that God has to offer and not a contaminated source. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I think I'm struck by the dichotomy of it's this just amazing story, but at the same time, it's such, from a biblical standpoint, it's such a biblical story, right. It matches up to a lot of what you see, kind of of how Jesus would come into somebody's life and sort of that progression. And just out of curiosity, just because I'm a very curious person, like, when you had that vision of Jesus, what did he look like? Or was it like you couldn't really see him? What did he look like?

Elle Angel [00:37:38]:

To me, it was more what he felt like than what he looked like. What he looked like to me was hands and arms and shining light, and it wasn't his face. I guess when he appears to somebody, they interpret whatever it is that they need. He gives them what they need. And what I needed was a sense of belonging, that I was his and that he had found me and I was looking for him. And I was not calling on him specifically, because I'm sure things would have changed if I called on him years prior. But I was, like, nosing around in some thorny bushes and some mud and stuff, and he found me and he picked me up and told me, hey, this is where you need to go, right? And just took authority right there and felt like home. Like, okay, I'm where I'm supposed to be.

Elle Angel [00:38:35]:

And I had never felt that closeness with him, but at a spirit level, you know, home, like, you know, like, oh, I'm here. I'm with my parent. And when you have a baby, right, when you. When you have kids, they can't see you clearly, right? Like, they know. They know mom's voice, they know who mom is. They know who the parents are. Especially mom, right. Because for nine months you were there.

Elle Angel [00:38:57]:

And so they just feel those arms and they know that they're home and where they're supposed to be. And I feel like that was what that felt like to me is it felt like a parent coming and picking me up and like, okay, we're going to go. I'm taking you where you're supposed to go. And it was so welcome that I just didn't want, and I still don't want to hang on to anything that's going to interfere with that relationship ever again because it just feels so good and so right.

Jay Lee [00:39:26]:

Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. And that's a great analogy, by the way. Yeah. I mean, just your story, it's amazing. Jesus meets you where you're at. He meets you in a way that you needed.

Jay Lee [00:39:36]:

And then. I love that kind of the next progression of it is you just started reading the Bible, which seems like such a meat and potatoes kind of a thing, but you talk to so many people who have had their life transformed by the gospel and by Jesus, and that's always part of it. And then I really started getting into the Bible, and I really started reading his word. And so I love that that is also an important part of your story. It's not just these fantastic visions, but also being able to be tapped into the word and to have that learning and growth and discernment building up in you. And then, yeah, I think the other thing that I really appreciate about your story, that I think everyone who's listening can also benefit from, whether followers or teetering in between, is that the realities of this decision that you'd made hit kind of where the rubber meets the road with, oh, shoot, my livelihood and what I do every day to make money. It doesn't line up anymore with who I am now and who I serve and who I follow, and just that you had to face that decision. So I think that's a really important thing that you shared, because it's not always your business.

Jay Lee [00:40:52]:

It might be something else. It could be a relationship, or it could be whatever it might be, but there's always probably something for every person when they turn to follow Jesus, that there's probably at least something major in their life where it's like, oh, this doesn't fit anymore, and I have to make a decision.

Elle Angel [00:41:10]:

Yes, I saw that over and over again. I want to respond to two of the things that you said. That with the visions and with the gifts, you have to have a firm foundation in the word. You have to have it because you're 100%, you're accessing the spiritual realm. But even when you have Jesus in your life and you have a connection to God, you still need discernment. You always need discernment. And so how can you have discernment if you don't have the measuring stick of scripture?

Jay Lee [00:41:38]:

Yes.

Elle Angel [00:41:39]:

You've got to know what lines up with scripture and what doesn't line up with scripture, because otherwise you're open to the spirit realm and you could see whatever it is you want. And we know that Satan can disguise himself as a being of light. He knows what he's doing. He knows how to deceive. And so you have to have scripture. Not only will it change you as you read through it, I ended up reading it cover to cover, and I'm back into it again because I ate it up. I wanted to know every single page. I love that there's rules.

Elle Angel [00:42:07]:

I love that there's rules, that there are things that you should do, and there's things that you shouldn't do. Like new age, there's no rules. You just do whatever it is you want to do. I love that there's rules in scripture because they're there because they're good for us. I like that. And it helps us to stay grounded. So for people who are in new age and they're like, I'm seeing these things, it doesn't mean that when you get into scripture, it will go away, because God does speak to us and he sends angels to us and he sends us messages. And I still do have dreams and visions.

Elle Angel [00:42:35]:

However, I'm always lining it up with scripture. So you have to have that really firm foundation in that you got to know what God loves and you have to know what he hates so that you get to know him, you get to know your father. You can be closer to him. How can you be close to him if you don't know him or you don't try?

Jay Lee [00:42:54]:

That is. That is a great word. It kind of reminds me of this book. It's by Tim Keller, the reason for God. And I can't remember exactly how he said it, but basically what he was saying, know if your God agrees with everything that you think and everything that you like, because he was saying, just think of your best friend. Think of the person who you are closest to in life. Do you agree with that person about everything? No. Even somebody who you are very, very close to or even like a sibling or somebody who you grew up with, you don't agree it with them about everything.

Jay Lee [00:43:31]:

Right? Because you're two different people. Right. And you're saying, if your God agrees with everything you think, everything you want, everything that you say, you better watch out, because most likely your God is yourself. Right. But if God really is who he is and he is a person independent of myself, then we should assume that there are going to be places where what he says maybe doesn't line up with what I think or what I would even wish or want. And what's going to happen when that happens, when what I think and what I want clashes with what God wants and what he thinks, what's going to happen then? So I kind of wanted to move then into the practical, just as I'm thinking about everybody who's listening to this. What are some ways that you feel like you're seeing the new age and just kind of some of the beliefs or even just the culture of it, how are you seeing it most influencing either in our society or maybe even within the church?

Elle Angel [00:44:31]:

We live in a dua's thou wilt society. We are pro affirming feelings, and our feelings change like the wind. And so this isn't based off of your feelings, right? Like, okay, we have emotions. God has given us emotions, and we can see the depth in the emotions of David in the psalms. There's so much emotion in here, and he gets on that level, but we can't do whatever we want and say, you know, this practice is okay, or if you're feeling like doing this, then you should be able to do that. Yet it's in society, it's in music, it's in TV shows. I don't have a TV anymore because all of the things that we were watching, it started off okay enough. But I found that every series that we got into got so dark.

Elle Angel [00:45:29]:

It got so dark. And if you scroll through the menu on what to see, it's some dark stuff that ten years ago, those titles, those did not exist. But it's just we've become so desensitized to the demonic, we've become so desensitized to evil that we're singing horrible things that are coming in the radio. You're not even thinking about it, but you're singing really awful things. So I think that we are in this society of lawlessness, and it's 100% penetrated into the church. Many have thrown the rule book away. It's just easier to not have rules and to do whatever it is that they want and that all roads lead to the same place. What better lie? It's comfortable.

Elle Angel [00:46:20]:

You don't have to change. Like you talked about earlier about the rubber hitting the road. When you take Jesus as your savior and you really repent and you want to be close to him, I've seen that so many times that when someone takes Jesus as their savior, that there is some shedding to do, there is some pruning that happens, and oftentimes there's a big thing that it's got to go or it's got to shift in some way. So if somebody's listening, they're like, oh, I'm teetering on the edge, but I know if I do this, then I have to let this habit go, or I have to let that go. He's with you during it. He's with you throughout that whole process. So if you think about doing it alone, you're never going to want to do it, because you know that on your own, you can't do it alone, but you're going to have Jesus with you. So letting go of our livelihood and completely changing our business, which, by the way, ended up being so much more beneficial afterwards, the rewards for doing that were immense, but we didn't do it for the rewards.

Elle Angel [00:47:20]:

We did it because we wanted to be on that straight path. But Jesus will be with you to make any of those changes. So I know that for the world, it's uncomfortable to let go of your habits and your beliefs and maybe how you're making money or how you're operating within your relationships, it's easy and it's comfortable. And that if you're going to follow scripture, you're going to follow what God loves, that it's going to be hard, but he'll be with you while you make those changes. So you might not think that you'd ever be able to let go of this celebrity that you follow, or her music or his music. I followed him for so long. But with Jesus, it's incredible. There were things that I had a taste for that I no longer had taste.

Elle Angel [00:48:06]:

Like, I was so attached to these things at one point, like my crystals, I was so attached to them. I spent so much money on them. They were all over my house. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want them anymore. It wasn't so rooted in me anymore. Right. So I think that's the thing, is that people hang on to what they love, and they hang on to their comforts and their feelings, and they want to be validated and they grip on them and they don't want to change. And so society says, fine, you could do that.

Elle Angel [00:48:34]:

It's totally fine. The church says, fine, you could do that, it's totally fine. But God doesn't say that. But he says, when you change, I'll be with you. And that's more meaningful than somebody just being like, yeah, go on this path of self destruction. Fine, then it's not okay that you're hurting yourself. Here, let me help you get better.

Jay Lee [00:48:54]:

Yeah, man, there was so much good stuff in what you just said there. Yeah, I agree with all of it. Even just that last thing that you said there, that it's not the people actually who will let you do whatever you want into your own demise that love you. The people who love you are the ones who are willing to speak truth to. And so, you know, God loves you. Jesus loves you. He's willing to speak truth to you. He's not going to allow you to go down the path of destruction without speaking the truth to you.

Jay Lee [00:49:25]:

And Jesus says, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also the truest indication of where your heart is, is basically, what do you treasure? What are you investing? Your time and your energy and your money. What are you dreaming about? That is ultimately your treasure, and ultimately, that is what your heart belongs to. And so that is a measuring stick of kind of really where you're at and what you're committed to. Now, this is really personal for me just as a parent. I have two young kids, a seven year old and a two year old. The church that I grew up in kind of, I would say was a little bit more like, hard line on things. Like, it was the kind of church where it was like. Pokemon.

Jay Lee [00:50:11]:

No. Harry Potter. No. Just like it kind of basically, they drew pretty hard lines where all of these things, you should not be engaging with these things at all. Trick or treating? No. Right. I think as a parent, I find myself sort of vacillating between how serious do I need to take some of these things? So I'll give you a very concrete example. I remember for the longest time, one of my daughter's bedtime routines, she would do this video on YouTube, which was like, I can't remember what it's called anymore because she doesn't do it anymore.

Jay Lee [00:50:47]:

But it was basically like kids bedtime yoga. Right? Where it would be like, probably something fun, like, this is the trolls version of this kind of yoga stretching routine or something like that. And so that was just something that for some reason, she caught on to. And we would let her do it before she went to bed. But there was definitely the part of me that I was like, man, I know that she's not really talking about any spiritual kinds of things or anything like that, but should I be letting my daughter do know kids yoga? You know, just different things like movies or TV shows that have elements that have to do with ghosts or things like that, even if it's, know, not really serious or anything like that. Like Mickey Mouse Halloween episode. Right? There's ghosts. And I'm always sort of vacillating between how seriously should I be taking some of these things? So I'm just kind of curious for you, just with the experience that you've had, and you're also a parent and you also, I think, work with parents and things like that.

Jay Lee [00:51:55]:

How do you approach some of these things and kind of discern how serious to take certain things and what things, if anything, is like, we don't need to stress about it that much.

Elle Angel [00:52:07]:

That is such a good question. I'm so happy that you brought it up because I think it's important. I think what that's rooted in is not being sure of how serious or how real the spiritual realm is and how easily accessible. It is coming from the new age perspective and seeing what I've seen and experiencing what I've experienced, it's not hard. It's not hard to access it. Children are born wide open, and that's why they're able to see things and know things that adults can't. They are open and they are trusting and they are highly impressionable. So those that are in the entertainment industry know how impressionable children are.

Elle Angel [00:52:50]:

And so if they can desensitize them and get them interested in those things at a young age and exposed to them at a young age, then it's normal. So that's why you see a lot of adult concepts or those kinds of things. Like you mentioned ghosts and trolls. You see them in kids shows. Why don't you see angels in kids shows? Why don't you see the positive? Why don't you see the light in kids shows? Why? It's because they know what they're doing and they know what they're placing there. And I also have a seven year old and a two year old and a three year old. And I don't want my kids to think that those things are normal. I want them to see them and think that's not normal and that's not okay.

Elle Angel [00:53:43]:

It's everywhere. So it's even in ads on YouTube. So we homeschool. So if I'm teaching them something on YouTube, we're looking at something and there's an ad that comes on and there's so much that has to do with magic and making potions and this and, and, you know, I've taught them about magic, but these magical things are geared towards kids and it's fun and it's harmless. So they think if I dabble in it later, it's not a bad thing. But if you know from a young age that these types of things are bad or they're wrong, it's easier for you to call them out. Like trolls. They're awful things.

Elle Angel [00:54:21]:

Those are horrible things. And fairy tales live under bridges. Awful. Like eating people. Why do we have kids movies on these things? Ghosts are real. Those are real things. And yet they're put into kids programming. If you look at yoga and where that comes from and what it means, yoga means to be yoked with, right? So when you're doing certain poses, you are accessing different gods or goddesses.

Elle Angel [00:54:51]:

You're connecting with them on a physical level. You're like, oh, wow, maybe that's not such a good thing. So lots of times, if we look at the history of what the kids are consuming. Look, the history of Halloween and where those practices came from, I know that there's so much pressure as a parent. Like, you want to make your kid happy. You want them to partake in the things that maybe you enjoyed as a kid or you see other kids enjoying. But as parents, we have the wisdom and we have the ability to decipher what is of the light and what's not and to give them as much light as possible. Right.

Elle Angel [00:55:26]:

If they're young plants, you want to be able to, like, they have access to water, good, clean water, and they have access to sunshine. And you give everything you want. You wouldn't just let any animal into your greenhouse. You want to protect your saplings, right? Like, if you know that this squirrel loves to eat these types of plants that you're raising, you're not going to let them in. You want to be the gatekeeper of your greenhouse so that you can shelter your kids until they're old enough for you to explain. That would be my perspective.

Jay Lee [00:55:55]:

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I appreciate that. And like I said, I'm torn on a lot of these things. What about kind of going off of the example of, let's say, yoga? I think then I could sort of guess what you would say in terms of, like, well, what about for a discerning adult? Let's say for me as a christian adult, I don't do yoga because I'm just the least flexible person in the world. And that sounds like torture to me. But let's say I'm like a christian adult, and I know that yoga has roots in Hindu religion, and I'm able to separate kind of the religious aspect of it from just. I could also see a lot of people just do it as exercise. Right.

Jay Lee [00:56:41]:

And so as an adult, I have that discernment, and I know, but it kind of sounds like you're saying you feel like it's even more than that. Like that there is actually something about the practice itself. Even if I am not intending it to be religious, even if I know already that it's associated with this other religion that I don't believe, and I'm not doing it for those reasons, it kind of feels like you're saying you still feel like there is still a spiritual component that I cannot disengage from the activity. Is that right?

Elle Angel [00:57:10]:

That's right. You can't separate it from what it is, so it is what it is. So just because you don't have that intention of using it for that thing does not change it. If you were to bring in a water machine that's been sitting in the emergency room and you bring it in your house, you're like, oh, it's just a water machine. It's dirty because you've brought it in from the hospital. You've brought it in from that room with everybody touching it, with all the stuff on it. And so, yes, even though it is a water dispenser, it's still not a clean thing, and you've brought it into your house. So when you bring that unclean thing into your house, there are implications.

Elle Angel [00:57:47]:

There are consequences to bringing that thing. Like, you can't think your way out of a crystal being a crystal, just like you can't think your way out of yoga being what it is, because when your physical body makes those movements, you connect to that God or goddess. These practices were intended to do that. So just because you think I'm going to not think about that doesn't mean that that's not what you're doing. You could do the same thing for mediumship. Oh, my goodness. I have to clean up my Facebook groups. I have a couple of Facebook groups that are still on there that I haven't seen in a while, but I saw a post a few months ago and I've left that group now.

Elle Angel [00:58:27]:

But it's like, okay, how many christian mediums are there in this group? And so many people said, I'm a christian medium. I invoke the name of Jesus. While I do my. And I commented on it. We're not supposed to be doing this as Christians, but there are so many people that believe, like, I'm a christian medium. And if I think about Jesus and I ask Jesus to help me access that spirit, that he's going to do that. It's a dangerous way of thinking to think, like, I can think my way out of this thing being harmful for me or my kids.

Jay Lee [00:58:58]:

Yeah, and thanks for sharing that. I think I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I believe on something because I think my tendency is I do have sort of that upbringing and a little bit more of a hard line. Like, don't even get close to these things. Right. I kind of think of the example, I think, in Romans, where there was sort of that debate of whether or not Christians could eat food that was sacrificed to idols. And basically it kind of seemed like, unless you're causing somebody else to stumble, it's okay, because we know that these idols are nothing. And so what God created you to enjoy, you can do it free of conscience, basically, unless you're causing somebody to stumble. And so I guess I've been trying to figure out how much of a correlation is there with that principle, with something like, let's say yoga, where it's like, yeah, I mean, obviously I don't want to participate in yoga per se, but I mean, God created us with bodies and exercise is good and stretching is good, unless I'm causing someone else to stumble.

Jay Lee [01:00:02]:

If I can stretch my body and exercise my body and do those poses without stumbling into that belief, maybe I can enjoy it free of conscience. But honestly, like I said, I'm still trying to weigh those things in terms of how to apply that and what things that applies to and what things it does not apply to.

Elle Angel [01:00:20]:

Totally. There are so many other stretches that you can do. There are ones that specifically are not yoga. There's pilates. There's so many ways that we can stretch our bodies, right? But this one specifically, that one is for that specific purpose, for people that are interested in crystals. There's so many different things that we can use for jewelry, if you're interested in that, that don't take you down that path. So I would just opt for not including it if I can find an equally effective alternative. Like, why go into that? That's me.

Elle Angel [01:00:56]:

But everybody should pray on that because I know that there are a lot of people that are very attached to yoga. They love their yoga practices. And I used to love yoga as well, and I didn't think that was something I'd be able to let go because I really enjoyed it so much. But when I thought, if this is yoking me to other gods and goddesses and it's connected to worship, I can't imagine that making God too happy. And even if he's okay with it, on the off chance he's not, I'm just going to opt for regular stretches or I'm just going to do a different type of exercise just in case. That's not okay. That's not okay with him. So that would be where I come from with that.

Jay Lee [01:01:32]:

Yeah, that's a good point. There's so many different ways you could stretch your body, just do something else. Yeah, that's a fairly good and just practical perspective. So I appreciate that, man. There's so much, just good and important stuff that we've talked about, and I feel like I could just keep asking you questions forever about this. I'm so thankful that you could be on the podcast and just share your experience and your knowledge and the wisdom that you've gained on this. But again, thank you so much for being on the podcast. If people wanted to connect with you more or wanted to find out more about your services, could you just tell us a little bit more about the services that you offer and what's the best way that people can connect with you?

Elle Angel [01:02:19]:

Yes, totally. So I have books and group coaching and one on one coaching that I offer. I work with those who have undergone trauma and they're wanting to become better wives and better mothers. They want to grow closer to God, and I want to help them overcome that trauma so that it's no longer in the way of their relationships and achieving good, lasting, fulfilling relationships with their families and with God as well. So they can get more information by visiting my website, which is Elangel Co. And they can also get my book, Kinsugi Heart, which is on Amazon.

Jay Lee [01:03:00]:

Great. So yeah, we will include all of those links in the show notes so that you guys can connect with Elle. But Elle, thank you again so much for being on the podcast today.

Elle Angel [01:03:10]:

Well, you're welcome. I had so much fun too. I feel like we could have talked all day. This was fun.

Jay Lee [01:03:15]:

The closing song for this episode, save me, is by Eliza King. The Daily Sabbath is a provision podcast production. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review and share this episode with someone. You can also check out all of our links in the episode description.

Elle Angel [01:03:34]:

Father of mercy, full of compassion. Here my desperation, always imperfect power and purpose. To you I turn, for I am certain that, Lord, you hear my breath. My body's weak and my heart is scared, acquainted with my grief, you know the cup of my suffering. No one else can save me, no other name can make me whole. No one else can save me or purchase the handsome of my soul. I'm choosing to stand on the blood of the lamb, on Christ alone ago. No one else can save me but he who paid it.

Elle Angel [01:05:05]:

Holy Messiah, blessed Redeemer, you bring to us the kingdom of heaven. Even the slightest touch of your garment flows with the power of resurrection. Behold the living word who takes away the sin of the world. Here comes the lamb of God, to bear the weight of all we could not. No one else can save me, no other night can make me whole, no one else can save me, purchase the rest of my soul. I'm choosing Christ alone. No one else can save me but he who pay it all try. I have the faith, I'll see all that your cross has won for me.

Elle Angel [01:06:55]:

Whether with earthly eyes or heaven, sight of eternity no one else can save me no other name can make me whole no one else can save me or purchase the ransom of my soul until to stay on the blood of the lamb on Christ alone I call no one else can save me but he who paid it all close.